Commentary

So you think you’re an atheist?

POSTED AT 07:17 PM ON Oct. 25, 2009 | PRINT | Email | SHARE | COMMENTS (68)

Two weeks ago, Richard Dawkins visited the IU Auditorium and things haven’t been the same since.

Immediately, conversations started across campus as students began to question their faith. While atheists commended the words of their most notable leader, concerned believers persistently questioned his claims.

Shocked by Dawkins’ confident rejections of faith, many were quick to label him a militant atheist extremist. I did.

But now, I’m not buying it.  

While Dawkins might be an intelligent, Oxford-educated biologist with a keen ability to piss people off, he’s hardly hardcore. In fact, compared to the founding fathers of atheism, he’s a wimp, according to recent campus lecturer John Haught.

In his 2006 bestseller, “The God Delusion,” Dawkins claims, “We can give up belief in God while not losing touch with a treasured heritage.”

This isn’t exactly the view of the classical atheists. When famed existentialist/pioneering atheist Jean-Paul Sartre spoke about his beliefs, he said, “Atheism is a cruel and long-range affair.” Friedrich Nietzsche, though confident in God’s death, maintained that most would be too weak to accept the terrifying reality of a world without religion.

In overthrowing something as fundamental as God, classical atheists understood that intense cultural change would necessarily occur. Dawkins’ post-religious world, however, seems much like ours – just without churches, mosques, religious prejudice, absolute values and, most importantly, freedom from the greatest of all evils: creationists. 

But that’s not how it works.

You can’t say no to something without saying yes to something else. Atheism isn’t a simple shunning of “irrational,” faith-based belief. It’s an embrace of naturalism. It’s an acceptance that this is all there is. It demands a willingness to wonder if there’s a purpose to life. It requires that individuals assume total responsibility for their actions, which is an incredible burden.

True atheists must grapple with lawless nihilism. They should see no tragedy in suffering and should find no praise for altruism. Certain ways might be preferable, but they cannot be inherently better. Because things just are. Period.

This doesn’t mean that atheists want us to suffer or that they desire a world without happiness. It doesn’t imply that many atheists have come to their belief without processing these bleak thoughts.

This doesn’t mean that atheists are bad people. I love them. Many are my friends.
I’m simply asserting that atheism is not a world view that should be as easily and rationally accepted as Dawkins suggests. It’s not a joyous enlightenment that one experiences.

It should be tough.

And though he can be quite the attack dog, I’d never call Richard Dawkins tough.
While I might be intimidated by his bold denunciations of all faiths, I see him for what he is: a half-hearted atheist, who only partially embraces the implications of his belief.

He is, at best, a naive proponent, fully knowledgeable of the biology behind his world view but reluctant to acknowledge the depressing reality of the existence he advocates. He’s one who would attack God, but not finish Him off. A pansy. A juvenile noob.

Or, as Dawkins might say in his refined British way, a bloody sissy.

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Posted by Nick G. at 3:3 PM on Nov 04, 2009 | Report this comment

LOLZ, is this a joke? Trying to poke holes into the belief of Atheism? Most religions only pick and choose what they want to believe in. If everyone would believe strictly what they label themselves as then we wouldn't have so many variations in religion. Especially with Christianity. Being Atheist doesn't mean a bleak outlook on life. "They should see no tragedy in suffering and should find no praise for altruism" Are you kidding me? They still are humans they still have the capacity to care. Grow up.

Posted by Zach at 10:23 PM on Nov 03, 2009 | Report this comment

Your article was insightful and entertaining. It is interesting to see this other side of atheism; the "coming to terms" portion of this bleak belief.

Posted by Tera Patrick at 12:53 AM on Nov 02, 2009 | Report this comment

The journey to NOT believing in Santa Claus is also not a particularly joyous journey either.

Posted by John Dale at 5:14 AM on Nov 01, 2009 | Report this comment

Pure unadulterated drivel.

Posted by Alyssa at 2:56 PM on Oct 29, 2009 | Report this comment

Dear Huh: In case you didn't notice, or in case you're too dumb and too one-sided to pay attention, I did as a matter of fact acknowledge the fact that atheists were being attacked. I simply made the observation that attacking me back doesn't do anything to help the situation, and further more, it makes you look like an idiot. Yes, I did grow up here my entire life, and yes, I realize the discrimination against atheists. I never denied that, I never said that it was a horrible thing. I don't have a problem with it. Whatever. I don't care. But what's clear to me is that you have no problem with being a hypocrite. You clearly don't know jack shit about me or anything I believe in. My world view is one of love for everyone no matter what or who they believe in. Live and let live. Or live and let die, depending on how you look at it. You're argument against me is exactly what I was arguing for in the first place. So quit making yourself look like an ass. Thanks.

Posted by JCB at 2:9 PM on Oct 29, 2009 | Report this comment

I disagree with some of your observations. I am an atheist, and I still find the universer a beautiful place, full of potential, and very exciting due to everything we don't know yet. We all have human values independent from religions. People, even without religion, will follow moral and ethical values. Life does not need to seem hollow because there is no God. On the contrary; the mind is free to question, to explore, to grow, and to become one race together by facts, science, exploration, and the imagination. People are afraid to let go of religions even if proven wrong because of fear. They prefer a lie to the truth if it makes them feel better. This is wrong to the person and to our entire race.

Posted by Kevin at 7:28 AM on Oct 29, 2009 | Report this comment

I completely agree that the journey away from believing in "God" isn't a joyous one, but for me it was the definition of enlightening. Having been sent to Catholic school for 12 years, IU has been a breath of fresh air to say the least. I sometimes wonder where I'd be today if I had spent 24 semesters studying real science instead of feel-good fairy tales about a man pointing into nothing and saying "abra cadabra!"

Posted by Zack W at 11:39 PM on Oct 28, 2009 | Report this comment

Bob Saget, First off I would like to say I believe it is wrong for you to smash someone's work while hiding behind the safe blanket of a fake name. I respect if you don't want to come out but,it's not fair to Tyler that he puts his neck out there and you don't. Secondly, if you are going to attack this article I think you should back it up with some facts. Saying someone else is wrong just because is a terrible argument.

Posted by Marlowe at 7:40 PM on Oct 28, 2009 | Report this comment

Rob - you have just managed to completely misunderstand just about everything Dawkins has said about his Atheism. His belief is probably the same as mine - I don't personally believe that there is a god. In fact, I personally believe that there isn't a god (yes, those two are different. Think about it). However, I haven't explored every inch of the universe and I'm open to the possibility that I could be wrong. Being open-minded and intellectually honest doesn't mean that we don't "really" believe what we say we believe, nor does it mean that we aren't "fully stand[ing] behind" what we say.

Posted by rob at 8:28 AM on Oct 28, 2009 | Report this comment

I have to agree with Tyler. Dawkins doesn't fully believe there's no God, and therefore, as Tyler notes, "only partially embraces the implications of his beliefs." I think the fact that he had to use the following language in a chapter title from The God Delusion is enough indication: "Why there almost certainly is no God" (almost being the key word). He couldn't just say "Why there is no God," could he? And I think that says a lot about him. He's willing to travel around the world advocating something he tries to promote as his "truth" but can't fully stand behind.

Posted by Brian37 at 7:51 AM on Oct 28, 2009 | Report this comment

I have no doubt that well intended people want better for society. BUT again, Tyler is dead wrong about Dawkins in calling him a fundamentalist. AGAIN, that would be like calling "Ellen" who is socially to the left a "fundamentalist" for speaking out against treatment of women in Islam. Forcing women to cover up is wrong, period. Anyone who speaks out against such barbaric tribalism is not a fundamentalist. Dawkins criticism is justified. Science is under attack by fans of ancient stories. They don't want to move into the future. It would be no skin of the atheist's nose if those stuck in the past would leave science alone. You cannot blame Dawkins for wanting to protect scientific method. I am glad there are fierce atheists out there willing to defend PROVABLE FACT. On the other hand you have people like Ray Comfort selling lies about evolution attempting to make it falsely look like alchemy. His agenda is not to debunk evolution, his agenda is to sell the Christian god.

Posted by Neil Bever at 7:36 PM on Oct 27, 2009 | Report this comment

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that Bob. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I'm sorry if you took offense to him calling out Dawkins, but he has the right to do that. I think that it is sad that everyone immediately went to attacking Tyler. He doesn't deserve that. If you want to disagree with him you can, but ad hominem is disgraceful. Tyler is a great columnist, and a great thinker.

Posted by Bob Saget at 4:14 PM on Oct 27, 2009 | Report this comment

Atheist or not, I think we can all agree that this article is garbage and simply poorly thought out.

Posted by Ken at 11:11 AM on Oct 27, 2009 | Report this comment

I was struggling with my beliefs and then last Sunday a miraculous thing happened to me. I haven’t attended church in years because I like to stay home, “celebrate reason” and have a nice breakfast. Normally, I never have toast, but that Sunday I felt this overwhelming urge to add toast to my meal. As the bread was toasting I felt wrapped in the warmth of a great presence and when the toast popped up - there burnt into the bread was an image of Charles Darwin! Needless to say, I will never question scientific fact again!

Posted by YourDad at 10:21 AM on Oct 27, 2009 | Report this comment

It appears to me that you are the type of person who is desperate to act 'tough'. An intelligent person, whether atheist or otherwise, is always careful not to make sweeping generalizations and not to appear mentally inflexible. Question: Have you been bullied? You sound like a skinny wimp who is desperate to sound tough to hide your insecurities about. One day you will be a man enough to learn these things.

Posted by Laurie at 9:0 AM on Oct 27, 2009 | Report this comment

I have a lot of problems with this editorial, most of which have been addressed quite well by other commenters here. One thing that's still really bothering me, though - I was at John Haught's lecture, and I don't remember him calling Dawkins a wimp, or even implying that. Therefore I'm pretty confused why you say Richard Dawkins is a wimp compared to the founding fathers of atheism, according to Haught. One more thing: I think I'll take nothingness over the chance of an eternity in Hell.

Posted by Hello at 10:54 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

Obviously you are a sophomore. You will probably look back at this later and understand how ignorant it is.

Posted by Marlowe at 9:44 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

I always find it interesting when non-Atheists claim to know better than Atheists what Atheists do or do not believe. Not only is this absolutely absurd, it's also quite offensive. The claim that being an Atheist means that one should see no tragedy in suffering is as silly as saying that Christians should see no tragedy in suffering either (because God is ultimately responsible and it's all part of his divine plan because, after all, he controls everything and does everything and besides, whatever tragedy we experience on earth is but a blip in an eternal existence in heaven). The fact is that suffering matters. It may not matter to the universe, there may not be any cherubs sitting on clouds shedding tears for the suffering of mortals, but it still matters. It matters because it matters to me. Why do you assume that something can only have importance if a being bigger and stronger than us humans thinks it should?

Posted by Joe at 6:38 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

The sad thing is, when you boil it down, all this argument is supposed to say is that you call Dawkins a sissy because he's not militant in his denial of religion.... seriously? So you're also a sissy because you're not militant in your affirmation of Christianity? Come on. Dawkins isn't trying to cause a revolution. Oh, and arguments are more persuasive when the writer doesn't sound ignorant. I mean honestly... you mentioned "refined British way" to insult him and help conclude the article... wow.

Posted by Max Frankel at 6:38 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

Bringing out the big guns Tyler, Nice! These are what opinion articles are meant to be. I liked your concept of classical atheism as true atheism and how Dawkins doesn't live up to its standard but I don't necessarily agree with what they lead to. Nietzsche in my opinion leads to Perspectivism not nihilism. And Sarte lead to an empowering feeling of free will, not a burden of responsibility. I do believe that Dawkins leads to a false reliance on empiricism and science, and there's more to religion than the simple/primitive dichotomy that he makes it out to be.

Posted by Xam Leknarf at 6:36 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

Bringing out the big guns Tyler, Nice! These are what opinion articles are meant to be. I liked your concept of classical atheism as true atheism and how Dawkins doesn't live up to its standard but I don't necessarily agree with what they lead to. Nietzsche in my opinion leads to Perspectivism not nihilism. And Sarte lead to an empowering feeling of free will, not a burden of responsibility. I do believe that Dawkins leads to a false reliance on empiricism and science, and there's more to religion than the simple/primitive dichotomy that he makes it out to be.

Posted by deb at 5:18 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

@ "No Cultist" The only rude, insulting comment so far is yours. The bad taste in your mouth is from your own ugly rant. Shame on you.

Posted by mandyAmanda at 5:8 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

Whatever bad you can say about athiests, well, at least they are not as evil as Purdue.

Posted by No Cultist at 4:43 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

I like your musings. Notice all the nasty and hateful atheists in here trying to make themselves appear SOOO smart by insulting you. This atheist CULT is no better than the theist cults atheists are trying to replace. I don't want a bunch of nasty, hateful people ruling my brain, regardless of whether they are theists or atheists. Atheists, stop making yourselves so repulsive with your arrogant and conceited opinions. You are NOT smarter than everyone else. The comments here show exactly why people hate atheists. So rude and obnoxious. Bleccch. I have a bad taste in my mouth, and I'm not even a theist. Nasty and intolerant is nasty and intolerant, whether you're a theist or an atheist. You are merely two sides of the same coin.

Posted by Bill at 4:37 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

Atheism is not naturalism. It is merely the lack of belief in a god or gods. It does not, ever, mention anything about demanding that the natural world is all there is. If evidence were provided for something external, then naturalism would incorporate that as well. I've said "No" to religion and have yet to say "Yes" to anything else. [quote]"True atheists must grapple with lawless nihilism. They should see no tragedy in suffering and should find no praise for altruism. Certain ways might be preferable, but they cannot be inherently better. Because things just are. Period."[/quote] This is a bastardization of simply acknowledging reality. Lawless nihilism? We've created laws based on what we've observed and agreed on. They're laws to help us, and are allowed for change in the future if our needs change. Being good for goodness' sake seems better to me anyways than simply doing what you're told by a God whose opinion is really idiotic at times. Also, Dawkins' philosophy is lame at times. He should really stick to biology, which is what he's good at.

Posted by huh? at 4:8 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

Alyssa: "leave me and my religion alone. It's MY way of life, and MY belief" Alyssa, I'm not sure why I'm responding because 1) you're probably not going to read this, and 2) you're obviously not very intelligent, but I'll go ahead and point out the obvious anyway: Atheists here are responding to the article above. Did you read the article? It's an attack on atheists and full of misinformation (aka lies). Furthermore, you're surely well seated in your persecution complex... so much so that I have little doubt that you understand that in many places (Indiana for eg) it's unacceptable to be an atheist. Today it’s atheists that are the persecuted minority... and at best they’re looked down upon. If you don't believe me, google "attitudes towards atheists". Lastly, your religion impedes the Western world's ability to advance morally, socially, and technologically. For that reason alone I couldn't care less if Christians were only a tiny fraction of the population, I would still support eradicating your worldview from existence.

Posted by Blackout at 3:48 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

Your article subtly begs the question of the orgins of morality in human behavior. Based on what the evidence suggests, atheists draw their raison d'etre from the same sources as theists, i.e. we sit down and think about it, and then propose a system that makes sense to us. To quote Thomas Jefferson... "If we did a good act merely from the love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? It is idle to say, as some do, that no such thing exists. We have the same evidence of the fact as of most of those we act on, to wit: their own affirmations, and their reasonings in support of them...Diderot, D'Alembert, D'Holbach, Condorcet, are known to have been among the most virtuous of men. Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than love of God."

Posted by Ray Ingles at 3:43 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

It's a hilarious double-standard that you actually have to pick up a gun and kill somebody to be considered a 'militant' believer, but all you have to do to be considered a 'militant' atheist is write a book.

Posted by Brian37 at 3:18 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

QUOTE"Atheistic societies are miserable affairs. Witness North Korea... or any of the assorted gulag-states that suffer under atheistic Marxism. Thanks, Dawkins, but we'll pass."........................They are not "atheistic" atheists don't worship anything. In North Korea they worship the state. It is false and a mistake to associate all atheists to loving monsters. That's like saying all people with mustaches love Hitler. Hitler, Stalin and Kim Jong Ill have the same thing in common with the god of Abraham, ABSOLUTE POWER without the ability to dissent. Name me one passage in the Bible/OT/or Koran that says that god can be voted out of power?

Posted by Alyssa at 2:59 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

For all of you riled up atheists out there, it seems to me that, in all honesty, atheism IS your religion. You protect it like a religion, anyway. It is your idea of life. Good for you, I applaud you on being so passionate about something. However, leave me and my religion alone. It's MY way of life, and MY belief. Sure, this article may attack you, in a way, but your comments aren't helping any by just attacking back. Religion rules the world, whether Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, or Atheist. You want peace and morals and selflessness? Leave everyone else's beliefs alone. Thanks.

Posted by Brit Brat at 2:37 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

Atheism is a BELIEF. They believe there is no GOD. The end is near, y'all Ciao, Brit Brat

Posted by Conversational Atheist at 2:27 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

Article: "True atheists must grapple with lawless nihilism. They should see no tragedy in suffering and should find no praise for altruism." I'm always curious why people don't argue: Atheists should find no praise for ice cream -- for if there is not a universal "delicious" decider, they have to try and live with the full consequences of ice cream not being 'truly' delicious.

Posted by Raytheist at 2:24 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

What a trite, ignorant, vacuous load of spew. First of all, most of Western Europe including England is already post-religious and people are on average happier, better adjusted and much better educated than the god-soaked, alienated and angst-ridden USA. How many shooting sprees happen in Europe every year? None. Also, as other commenters have pointed out, atheism in itself is not a world view or philosophy. Atheism is part of many different world views from the extreme left of communism to the extreme right of Randism. That in itself should be a clue that atheism is not itself a philosophy. Atheism is simply a putting away of childish things, a clearing of the decks of superstition and wishful thinking so that we can deal with the universe as it is objectively, Where we go from there is up to us. I suggest the next time you want to sound off about atheism, you learn something about it first.

Posted by Argue at 2:0 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

I heard that arguing on comments for a college newspaper is a great way to get people to agree to your point of view

Posted by salvage at 1:42 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

Pure nonsense. Atheism is the knowledge that there are no such things as gods, not yours, not the Islamic version, not the Greek, Roman, Aztec or any other universe creating drama queens. We do not have a leader, Dawkins or otherwise, how could such a simple idea require one? Atheism is not new, it's as old as sense and logic. Atheism is not a religion or even a philosophy, it is a simple statement that makes no comment on morality or anything beyond its very narrow scope. Atheism is not a science, it makes no comment on the origin of life or how it evolved. Religion is merely myth and superstition made acceptable by sheer numbers but your Jesus has no more basis in reality than any other god. Obviously it bothers you to no end that more and more people are coming to that conclusion (I'm sure you've noticed the drop in religion in the last 50 years?) and it's making you rather angry. Well, why don't you go and pray on it rather than posting dribble like this? It would be just as productive.

Posted by Brian at 12:13 PM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

Are you just trying to troll the IDS? You're revealing a lack of understanding of what atheists actually believe-- I suggest you look into the plethora of moral systems that have nothing to do with any god (in fact, many moral systems would be cheapened with a divine being!), and study up on humanism in general. Atheism does not imply nihilism any more than being a Christian implies kindness or happiness. You should do some study and refine your opinion before committing it to the newspaper so haphazardly.

Posted by Jay Hutchison at 11:28 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

This article is nonsense.

Posted by Alfred at 10:50 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

This idea that we need God to be happy and moral is not logical. There may be many sad non-believers and cruel godless states out there, but there is also plenty of evidence to the contrary. The prisons are not filled with nihilistic and imoral atheists, and there are plenty of examples of religious police states and very tragic religios folks. Love and compassion doesn't dissapair as soon as you realize that there is no God. You will of course have to give up the idea of eternal life, but that gives you all the more reason to try and enjoy this one. And while Nietszhe was an interesting character, he was quite pessimistic and also quite wrong about alot of things. And he lived in a time where non-religious communities was far less common than today. So, considering the hugely increased knowledge we have about sociology, psychology and religion today, I think you will find a great number of people who are more qualified than Nietzche on this subject. My personal experience of having been on the more atheistic side of agnosticism since I was a kid, informs me that atheism is not necessarily a sad choice. I am perfectly happy without God and I would say that I am as moral as the next person. However, I don't consider christian morality very attracive, or very moral for that matter. Being kind to other people because you've been told to, or because you want to get into heaven, is not an act of self-sacrifice.

Posted by Sarah at 10:44 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

You fail to address the idea of "humanism." If all atheists were such nihilists as you suggest, the world would be quite a different place. Not believing in a god does not mean that there is no such thing as "good" or "bad," and I'm not quite sure where you've drawn that conclusion from. As an atheist who regularly volunteers and tries to help my community, I'm actually a bit insulted at your perception of atheists. What Dawkins was suggesting when he said that we don't need to lose traditions by losing faith is that we don't need to radically change our entire society's behavior. You can still have a Christmas tree and give gifts on December 25th, even if you don't believe in Jesus. Also, the "This doesn’t mean that atheists are bad people. I love them. Many are my friends." argument is just as weak as the, "I have black friends, I'm not racist" argument. Please listen and read more critically from now on.

Posted by dag at 10:40 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

Tyler, what you seem to be unaware of is that many first world countries, including the U.S. have already turned away from their religion. I grew up as a "strong" Christian and today I’m now an atheist... one thing that was always hard for me to deal with was everyone's (and by everyone I mean 99%) of believer's attitudes, actions, and lives were... well... godless. People are most concerned with their own worldly security, their worldly future, and their own family. Little else matters to people today. America is already godless. Doing what Jesus said to do is simply asking too much for people today.

Posted by anti-idiotarian at 10:1 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

Atheistic societies are miserable affairs. Witness North Korea... or any of the assorted gulag-states that suffer under atheistic Marxism. Thanks, Dawkins, but we'll pass.

Posted by RC at 9:50 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

The Bible got it right: Big Bang (first God created heaven and earth) then the sun started shining over a billion years later (second "Let there be light") then water and land as the earth aged and the sun shined the temperature finally gets correct to melt ice (third land and seas) then the moon appears and the earth begins to spin (forth day Moon) then life in the sea and birds before mammals; note that birds seem to have descended from dinosaurs that came first in the ocean (fifth day creatures of the sea and birds) then mammals appear appear and finally man to rule over all the above (sixth day). Please show me one other religion that got this right?

Posted by JMJR at 9:20 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

"OUR laws are human made and the best societies to live in are the ones where there law is based on consent" How can you make such judgments? I have evolved to believe that the societies with one ruler who has all the power and the citizens try to take over weaker people are the best societies to live in. Again, what possible virtue can there be in this world without a Lawgiver and Judge? How can you tell me that I am wrong?

Posted by Aaron at 9:10 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

While I disagree with most of what you say; I'd have to give you some credit for a passionate and personal OPINION article. I will say that if you use the word "noob" in an article, you should be ashamed. Also, it's mildly prejudiced. You are making negative comments reliant completely on Dawkins heritage. Be careful, there...

Posted by Brian37 at 8:59 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

QUOTE:"Atheists are walking contradictions. What possible virtue can there be in a world with no Law-giver and Judge?" There is a difference between common law based on advise and consent. AND arbitrary dictatorial law, such as the fascism of Iran or North Korea. OUR laws are human made and the best societies to live in are the ones where there law is based on consent, not absolute power. The Abrahamic God as Christopher Hitchens correctly describes, is a cosmic BIG BROTHER and just as fascist as North Korea. OBEY ME OR ELSE! This "all powerful" God watches you every minute, every second of your life, from birth to death, in the bathroom and even during sex, and will beat the crap out of you for eternity for simply not following him. The Commandments at the top of his list are NOT about selflessness, but about his own self centeredness "LOOK AT ME, I AM THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE UNIVERSE". I am glad such a being is not real. I still in reality have to deal with the fans of this claimed being.

Posted by Brian37 at 8:44 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

Your opinion is half right. Dawkins is no more a militant than someone pointing out to a kid Santa isn't real, would be a militant. Sure, it is hard to face, but liberating once one does. But where you think Dawkins is half hearted is beyond me. Recognizing the awe in life does not indicate a secret denial of any kind. It merely means that BOTH that which amazes us and that which is destructive and scary, neither are a result of magic.

Posted by JMJR at 8:37 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

Atheists are walking contradictions. What possible virtue can there be in a world with no Law-giver and Judge?

Posted by Mathieu at 7:33 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

You deluded idiot. Atheism is not a '"belief", is has no "founding fathers". This is all crap. Also, when you say "British way" I believe you mean 'English way'. The Welsh or Scottish 'way' would probably be in Welsh or Scottish.

Posted by Neal Jansons at 7:18 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

You require many positions to be accepted by an atheist that are unnecessary. I am an atheist in that I do not believe that there are gods. There may be destiny (somehow), transcendent being (whatever that means), and all sorts of supernatural phenomena...I don't have enough data to come to conclusions about all of that. But on the subject of gods, as in some entity or entities that created and justly hold absolute authority and power over all reality, no account or evidence has convinced me. This is all atheist means...no belief in gods. It does not make me beholden to metaphysical naturalism. You are engaging in both the Straw Man and False Dichotomy fallacies. Atheism does not require what you say it does, thus it needs not be subject to your points, and in any case, there are more possible positions than theism (shall we just be honest and say Judeo-Christian monotheism, because that is the only kind your arguments even sort of apply to?) and metaphysical naturalism.

Posted by Patrick Oden at 7:1 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

I would argue that, though this life might be the only life we have (e.g., no afterlife), we can still treasure altruism and abhor suffering. We can choose to do so, even if we're not required to do so.

Posted by Bubbski at 7:0 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

If only you knew the "implications of his belief" you would bask in the optimistic "reality of the existence he advocates." What he advocates and what you are missing is the "joyous enlightenment that one experiences" when the hope one finds is based on the evidence filling their life. These sophomoric "bleak thoughts" you have put forth only reveal the need for further thinking and processing of the evidence. It would truly be a tragedy to live ones life unaware and unappreciative "that this is all there is." Your rant reeks of unwarranted hate based on ignorance and it is obvious that you have no idea what Richard Dawkins advocates. You have attacked the most hopeful and uplifting world view with the trappings of unsophisticated non-science. To see the world in such a sad, hopeless light would be dreary and I can see how the fulfilling, purposeful, optimistic, fact based world view of Richard Dawkins could be confused. Challenge your negativity with the opposing optimism before you and perhaps, you may even try reading Richard Dawkins.

Posted by bubb@danked.com at 6:58 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

If only you knew the "implications of his belief" you would bask in the optimistic "reality of the existence he advocates." What he advocates and what you are missing is the "joyous enlightenment that one experiences" when the hope one finds is based on the evidence filling their life. These sophomoric "bleak thoughts" you have put forth only reveal the need for further thinking and processing of the evidence. It would truly be a tragedy to live ones life unaware and unappreciative "that this is all there is." Your rant reeks of unwarranted hate based on ignorance and it is obvious that you have no idea what Richard Dawkins advocates. You have attacked the most hopeful and uplifting world view with the trappings of unsophisticated non-science. To see the world in such a sad, hopeless light would be dreary and I can see how the fulfilling, purposeful, optimistic, fact based world view of Richard Dawkins could be confused. Challenge your negativity with the opposing optimism before you and perhaps, you may even try reading Richard Dawkins.

Posted by Bob at 3:12 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

You haven't read any of Dawkin's books, have you? Did you even attend this lecture? Bottom line is that you are correct about the implications of there not being a god: what is around us is all there is. Morality is a construct, and life has no purpose (other than to reproduce). To one who believes this, they can be a nihilist. They can be cold and uncaring. Or, like me, they can realize that even though there's no "bad" or "good," we all have to share the world, and it would behoove everyone to be kind and altruistic. Just because there's no god doesn't mean we can't follow the "golden rule." However, people like you are the reason this world needs religion. People who can't figure out why they should be nice to their neighbor, but instead need the fear of god instilled in them to treat humans with humanity are why this world needs religion. Nietzsche didn't just think that people were too weak to accept a world without religion: he feared such a world himself. He feared the masses that need religion to guide them should there be no religion. But, I also suspect you didn't do enough research to learn that.

Posted by Chris at 2:14 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

First, I am a very happy atheist. Second, whether atheism is ultimately a positive or negative life choice for a person is irrelavent to the matter at hand - does God exist? In the end, there has yet to have been a single logical argument for God's existance. You make Indiana look bad.

Posted by David T. at 1:29 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

Tyler, your article seems to imply that all current atheists must suffer through "lawless nihilism" and find "no praise for altruism" while using the reason that "things just are". Of the hundreds of atheists I've come across, the opposite of what you say is true. Furthermore, I feel you insult humans in general by assuming that their lives cannot be complete unless they belief in the fantasies of the supernatural. In that sense, I have more faith than you, because I believe people can be good without the crutch of any gods, simply because wanting to live in a better world and wanting a better world for one’s children is rational and logical enough. Still, I thank you for touching on this topic.

Posted by Derek at 1:27 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

I've liked your previous articles, unfortunately this was quite a let down. Either you haven't read God Delusion or you just didn't understand it. Your writing shows a biased and uninformed perspective. You make it seem as if atheists don't wish to make change because "things just are," but the fact is atheists are willing to make significant change and impact for good in the short lives we live. I think you've come closer to describing religion. Another way of saying "things just are" is to see the world as a big "master plan." In that world there isn't much distinction between suffering and altruism, that's just the way things are under the plan. If this article exists only to create controversy, you have done it. Nothing gets people more riled up than a poorly written, poorly researched topic, on which you clearly don't have an open mind to. I hope your next article will be better.

Posted by A. at 1:13 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

Who are you to lable what a "true atheist" is? It's amazing how consistently bad your writing has remained since high school.

Posted by Pluto Animus at 12:28 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

What an unbelievably trite article.

Posted by Gregory Regal at 12:21 AM on Oct 26, 2009 | Report this comment

What you are failing to address is the fact that religion does not exist. It is a fairy tailed figment of your imagination and something that your worthless parents and this worthless country has fed down your throat to make a quick buck off of your ignorance. It probably doesn't help that you drink just because everyone does it and you're all mindless, gelatinous, parasitical tapeworms, who feed off of everyone else because you have no mind of your own.


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